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Fanning The Flames - Big East Expansion

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  • #46
    Originally posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    “Get yourself a gun……”
    Isn't that Annie? Today they are all Karen's.
    Not even a smile? What's your problem!

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    • #47
      I am sorry, but I just don't see how the WCC hurts Gonzaga, and I feel this flirtation with the Big East is just to better GU's lot in the WCC. In the early years....say, around 2004, I could see it. But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference. They make the tourney every year with a high seed. I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance. They are a great program headed by a great coach that coaches in an area with very few D-1 schools but a plethora of talent, and as GU is proving with its recruiting move into places like Minneapolis and Chicago, they can recruit all over......selectively. I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark. I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically. And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not. You would be shocked by how little readership Villanova gets despite being an elite program. For all their success, a basketball article about Gonzaga is likely to be read as much if not more than a Nova article......even with the titles.

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      • #48
        Thoughtful CDC thanks for ur input.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by CDC84 View Post
          I am sorry, but I just don't see how the WCC hurts Gonzaga, and I feel this flirtation with the Big East is just to better GU's lot in the WCC. In the early years....say, around 2004, I could see it. But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference. They make the tourney every year with a high seed. I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance. They are a great program headed by a great coach that coaches in an area with very few D-1 schools but a plethora of talent, and as GU is proving with its recruiting move into places like Minneapolis and Chicago, they can recruit all over......selectively. I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark. I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically. And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not. You would be shocked by how little readership Villanova gets despite being an elite program. For all their success, a basketball article about Gonzaga is likely to be read as much if not more than a Nova article......even with the titles.
          Hey CDC let me offer a rebuttal to some of your arguments here:

          But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference.
          GU certainly has a lot of control over its schedule right now, BUT with all the power conferences coalescing into their own solar systems the opportunity for scheduling big time programs is 100% going to diminish as the # of conference games goes up.
          You already are seeing that with PAC-12 & Big 10 conference games starting in December! Additionally I would argue that BYU's addition to the WCC in '11-'12 has actually helped elevate Gonzaga a great deal. BYU has proven to be a quality opponent year after year, offering 2-3 top 75 RPI/NET games every year that the Zags were otherwise getting on a consistent basis from the rest of the league besides SMC. BYU leaving is taking a big plank out of the support floor that Gonzaga has in the WCC.

          I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance.
          This isn't going to change; the University wouldn't be physically moving itself across the country!

          I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark.
          I really don't think the conference affiliation would require Gonzaga to have to try and recruit East Coast kids anymore than they were already doing, which seems like close to zero (only Keegan Hyland & Gerard Coleman come to mind). Gonzaga would still recruit nationally, with a focus on the West Coast. If anything, Gonzaga would be using the opportunity to play against storied programs such as Villanova, Georgetown, UConn, etc. as recruiting chips for their normal recruiting targets.

          I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically.
          Everyone is concerned with the travel, but there are certainly ways to mitigate the effects:
          • Multiple road games per single trips
          • Large & more comfortable charter jet (paid by donors enthusiastic about playing against bigger programs)
          • Reduced OOC travel (turn into Syracuse! j/k)
          • $$$$$ from bigger TV revenue


          Additionally how worn out are these kids really going to get? They are 18-21 year-olds; I really doubt the travel has THAT much of an effect on them. I think a lot of people are looking at the travel thru the lense of a middle-aged man/woman as opposed to eager kids jet-setting around the country to play a game they love in places they otherwise don't get to travel to.

          And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not.
          I think of all the things that are affecting realignment this is by far the biggest elephant in the room. The Big East's tv contract with Fox runs out after the '24-'25 season. The WCC extended their contract back in 2019 through 2027. I am not sure of the specifics of the WCC contract, but I would have to imagine that there are clauses in place that handle the loss of a team from the conference, particularly either GU or BYU. It is quite likely that as it stands in '23 that everyone in the WCC is going to take a hit with a loss of TV revenue due to BYU leaving the conference. As for the Big East, with their contract expiring in only a few years there is going to be a big push to negotiate for more money and quite simply adding Gonzaga would be a tremendous bargaining chip for the Big East negotiations. The WCC is going to lose money due to BYU's exit, and the Big East is in the position to negotiate for a bigger contract in '25, with the potential of adding Gonzaga to increase the amount even more. Imagine Fox (or whoever else) being able to run Big East games for an entire evening on the East Coast? I know I sure as hell would be watching!

          On a related note ESPN seems to be in a bit of a precarious position at the moment; reports are that Bob Chapek at Disney is looking at potentially spinning ESPN off from the company. Who knows what kind of effect this would have on TV programming? Without the Mouse providing a financial backstop, you could potentially be looking at programming cuts across the board. There is definitely a bit of uncertainty going on over there.


          Finally I would say this - the Gonzaga athletics program simply deserves the promotion. All the work that Few, the staff, the university & the players have put in have transformed a small-time Jesuit university that was on the verge of going to DIII before the start of the run into a national powerhouse that is now treated as the the equal of Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, & Kansas. Why shouldn't the program move onto a much more prestigious circle of universities & colleges? If BYU gets to join the Big 12 after having a mediocre independent football team and lots of 2nd place finishes in the WCC then CERTAINLY Gonzaga has earned the right to graduate from the WCC and join a big-boy conference. The Zags transformation is literally the same as taking a podunk school like Western Illinois in NCAA 2k8, playing in dynasty mode, and having them ascend to the top of the basketball world (minus all the championships...so far).

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          • #50
            Originally posted by CDC84 View Post
            I am sorry, but I just don't see how the WCC hurts Gonzaga, and I feel this flirtation with the Big East is just to better GU's lot in the WCC. In the early years....say, around 2004, I could see it. But right now GU basically has total control over its schedule, and it's level of success and consistent success have shown you can dominate in major college basketball without being in a huge conference. They make the tourney every year with a high seed. I also feel geography is the #1 reason for their success and development as a program. It isn't a hindrance. They are a great program headed by a great coach that coaches in an area with very few D-1 schools but a plethora of talent, and as GU is proving with its recruiting move into places like Minneapolis and Chicago, they can recruit all over......selectively. I don't want to be in a league with a bunch of functional programs competing for elite recruits who need to be convinced that it's better to move to Spokane than stay in Brooklyn or Newark. I just don't wish to wear out a good team, both academically and athletically. And again, I have spoken with a few basketball writers who say that the Big East is not making out as well as people think, BASKETBALL wise, with its TV deal with FOX. You are on ESPN or you are not. You would be shocked by how little readership Villanova gets despite being an elite program. For all their success, a basketball article about Gonzaga is likely to be read as much if not more than a Nova article......even with the titles.
            There is an old axiom in business. You either grow or you die.

            What this boils down to is a question of whether there is still room for growth while being affiliated with the WCC or if it's time to expand the business plan before things become stagnant.

            The danger is biting off more than you can chew, i.e. risk/reward.

            The scenario before the Zag administration reminds me of the parable of the talents in the Bible. Matthew 25:14-30

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            • #51
              [

              If M and W bball go to BE, most of the sports could go to the Big Sky Conference or find some other landing spot - but where would men's soccer and baseball play?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by CB4 View Post
                [

                If M and W bball go to BE, most of the sports could go to the Big Sky Conference or find some other landing spot - but where would men's soccer and baseball play?
                I believe it was 1995 Gonzaga played in PAC 10 for baseball

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                • #53
                  I dont know what the fix is. With conference affiliations happening if Gonzaga doesn't adapt we will take a hit, jmo. Times are changing and either we change with it or get stuck in the quick sand. No offense to the rest of the WCC, we've made some small improvements the last several years just not enough to keep the needle moving in the right direction.

                  To bad the Mountain West is not that appealing. With a couple additions say Saint Marys and Gonzaga that would bolster the depth of quality teams such as SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, Boise St...just spit balling.
                  America's Team!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Zagceo View Post
                    I believe it was 1995 Gonzaga played in PAC 10 for baseball
                    That'd be cool. Men's soccer could probably be easily invited as Pac 12 affiliate member like SDSU. Pac 12 men's has a full conference for baseball. That means baseball could be in BE or stay in WCC if WCC allows it.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by HenneZag View Post
                      I dont know what the fix is. With conference affiliations happening if Gonzaga doesn't adapt we will take a hit, jmo. Times are changing and either we change with it or get stuck in the quick sand. No offense to the rest of the WCC, we've made some small improvements the last several years just not enough to keep the needle moving in the right direction.

                      To bad the Mountain West is not that appealing. With a couple additions say Saint Marys and Gonzaga that would bolster the depth of quality teams such as SDSU, Nevada, UNLV, Boise St...just spit balling.
                      Yeah the MWC would be a good fit; the problem is you can't trust league stability right now. It is quite possible that San Diego St. & Boise St. are gone the next time the bigwigs start poaching teams. I used to be a big proponent of going to the MWC but it would be bad for the Zags if the conference identity was constantly shifting. The Big East checks all the boxes - stability, quality opponents, increased revenue, University mission fit - except travel/logistics, but I am sure that that can be ironed out.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by strikenowhere View Post
                        Yeah the MWC would be a good fit; the problem is you can't trust league stability right now. It is quite possible that San Diego St. & Boise St. are gone the next time the bigwigs start poaching teams. I used to be a big proponent of going to the MWC but it would be bad for the Zags if the conference identity was constantly shifting. The Big East checks all the boxes - stability, quality opponents, increased revenue, University mission fit - except travel/logistics, but I am sure that that can be ironed out.
                        That 3 pod proposal is pretty brilliant and should make travel a non issue. Marginally worse than now. Creative scheduling, split the east coast swings out between early Dec and end of conference play, play a conference game as first game of season vs Villanova on the road in Nov etc. Lots of ways to make those east coast swings exciting, group 2 or 3 games together over a week long period, etc. No brainer so long as other sports have a respectable place to play.

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                        • #57
                          In the OOC the Zags travel widely now, with a BE affiliation those trips can be replaced with shorter, largely west coast games. Seems a good trade off on tire wear.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jazzdelmar View Post
                            In the OOC the Zags travel widely now, with a BE affiliation those trips can be replaced with shorter, largely west coast games. Seems a good trade off on tire wear.
                            100% this. To be fair it seems like Few has cut down on OOC travel a lot recently anyway; weren't people griping this season how the team has no true OOC road games?

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                            • #59
                              I’m not as sold that a change is needed, for the reasons CDC stated. However, my fear has always been that when few leaves if the program takes a slide, it’s much more difficult to recover in the WCC.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by strikenowhere View Post
                                100% this. To be fair it seems like Few has cut down on OOC travel a lot recently anyway; weren't people griping this season how the team has no true OOC road games?
                                If by recently you mean this year, you are right. Last year started on the East Coast and migrated to mid America,
                                Last edited by willandi; 10-16-2021, 03:34 PM.
                                Not even a smile? What's your problem!

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