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Gonzaga vs Duke Post Game thoughts and analysis

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  • #16
    I've said ad nauseum this season, Hunter and Hickman still deserve more mins

    Still feel that way...

    Nembhard was on the ropes late, clearly tired....and literally just handing the ball over.

    Strawther and Rasir deserve major props/kudos too

    Thought Watson played great defense in final 10 mims before we pulled him in favor of Timme

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    • #17
      Unfortunately this game is why Timme is not considered much of an NBA player. I love Timme and will go to battle with him but if you’re a scout for the next level this is the film you watch, not Texas. And Duke put him in every ball screen.

      Gonzaga has a beautiful offense but it is dependent on passing. Every pass means a higher chance of turning the ball over. We do not rely on individual shot creation like other teams. Overall, nice to have a high intensity game like this and not have the season end on a loss. Felt like a national title game.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Therunner View Post

        Timme and Nembhard turned it over too many times as upperclassmen, esp late.

        Our young guys outplayed the vets down the stretch which was interesting
        My guess would be their lack of rest.

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        • #19
          The AP #1 rank streak is over

          ZZ

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Therunner View Post
            I've said ad nauseum this season, Hunter and Hickman still deserve more mins

            Still feel that way...

            Nembhard was on the ropes late, clearly tired....and literally just handing the ball over.

            Strawther and Rasir deserve major props/kudos too

            Thought Watson played great defense in final 10 mims before we pulled him in favor of Timme
            Hunter is iffy to me at this point. But the goal has to be to get minutes from him in March and that means playing along the way.

            The offense cannot sustain only Nembhard initiating action. That can be a role for Hickman and I think getting him in a place where we can play him 20+ minutes in a big game like this should be a primary focus of the season. I think our best lineup will be Nembhard-Hickman-Strawther-Chet-Timme, although we’ll really be able to defend well in lineups with Timme off the floor.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by zagfan08 View Post
              Hunter is iffy to me at this point. But the goal has to be to get minutes from him in March and that means playing along the way.
              What are you seeing with Sallis? Both positive and negative? 3 point shot looks terrible.

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              • #22
                Just flat out didn't play well enough. 28% from behind the arc, just not good. Did a lot of good things but if Timme can't really impose his presence in the paint because they have an athletic 7footer, shooting has to be better to beat a really good team. Probably Zag's two greatest strengths Nemby & Timme were neutralized by Duke's D. Needed someone else to have a great game and just didn't happen. Just 2 many unforced errors, Chet's inbound pass, Drew's 4th foul all those things add up quickly if you don't shoot well. Make two more 3's and all is forgotten but.....
                Take what you can from this game both positive and negative, throw it into the super computer that is Few and move on!

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                • #23
                  Timme's creative post moves and footwork really lacking this season compared to last year

                  Can't figure it out

                  He's still has the touch yet seems to be running backwards into dudes instead of baiting them, pump fakes, using both hands, etc

                  Like he did vs Mobley & all the footwork clinics.

                  Same thing vs UCLA, just kinda sloppy and forceful instead of savvy and sneaky. Looks like a solid big with some moves but far less dynamic than he used to be. Stats aren't terrible but not seeing the goods.

                  Not sure why

                  And what about that face-up game he supposedly worked past 6 months on? Where is that?

                  Hell, Duke's 7 footer and Freshman were showing us that stuff...not Drew so much

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Therunner View Post
                    Timme's creative post moves and footwork really lacking this season compared to last year

                    Can't figure it out

                    He's still has the touch yet seems to be running backwards into dudes instead of baiting them, pump fakes, using both hands, etc

                    Like he did vs Mobley & all the footwork clinics.

                    Same thing vs UCLA, just kinda sloppy and forceful instead of savvy and sneaky. Looks like a solid big with some moves but far less dynamic than he used to be. Stats aren't terrible but not seeing the goods.

                    Not sure why

                    And what about that face-up game he supposedly worked past 6 months on? Where is that?

                    Hell, Duke's 7 footer and Freshman were showing us that stuff...not Drew so much
                    I was hoping to see the face up game as well. He seems to be flustered when he makes 2-3 moves and defenders are holding ground. Credit Duke, but he needs to be patient at that point and either kick it out or hit the face up. And no more 3s from Timme I don't think he has hit any this year. Expirement over. Timme is a great player and will win us many high profile games but will get exposed a bit with athletic, physical and skilled bigs. Think Baylor.
                    America's Team!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HenneZag View Post
                      I was hoping to see the face up game as well. He seems to be flustered when he makes 2-3 moves and defenders are holding ground. Credit Duke, but he needs to be patient at that point and either kick it out or hit the face up. And no more 3s from Timme I don't think he has hit any this year. Expirement over. Timme is a great player and will win us many high profile games but will get exposed a bit with athletic, physical and skilled bigs. Think Baylor.
                      With the new NIL, I have to imagine there is a chance he Comes back for his senior year. He is a Luke Garza type. Fantastic college player, but all the things the scouts want in a new age big man, drew falls a little short… defending an athletic post, scoring against a taller and more athletic inside defender , strength, hitting an outside jump shot, athleticism, lateral agility, ability to face up and shoot a jumper.

                      Drew’s awesome, but with him now making money in college, you wonder if the pros of staying in college will outweigh being a second round pick to undrafted

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                      • #26
                        Game might’ve cost Tims the POY, lots of national eyeballs even at that hour. Good chance he returns to try again. Banchero far outperforms Holmgren, but little chance Chet returns. Even with a wealth of talent, Few still refuses to develop bench beyond 6th or 7th man and it always bites him. Bolton plays with great confidence. Would like to see him run the point a bit more. Gotta say, Watty played well, should have had more PT. The game looks close on paper but it was really Duke’s to lose. Seventeen TOs are hard to overcome, so many just dumb plays like two throw aheads for no reason.

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                        • #27
                          Frustrating game. Not sure who the better team was/is, but Duke played better. They had answers when we nudged ahead, and we didn't when the tide turned. Not sure if that's on coaching, depth, experience, fatigue, kismet or some combination thereof, but we didn't have what it took to make the summit, and they did.

                          It wasn't about foul differential IMO. It decidedly WAS about TOs and learning to value possessions. I may have a distorted perspective but this team seems a little looser with the ball than prior years; talent will bail you out of that a lot of the time but not against the Dukes of the world.

                          Agree it'll be a learning experience esp. for the younger guys and also agree the undefeated thing can be a monkey on the back which we don't have to worry about now, esp. as it's not a "bad" loss.
                          Your children have been placed in the custody of...Carl's Jr.

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                          • #28
                            Even with Paolo going off I think we probably win if we didn’t have foul trouble and he didn’t have cramping. Unfortunately you can’t count on not being in foul trouble for future games. These refs don’t care at all who they pin fouls to, as evidenced by Drew’s 3rd. Totally meaningless call and they don’t care if they put a star in foul trouble.

                            I believe any game we lose this year will have foul trouble among Chet and Timme as the common denominator. Have to be smart about pacing ourselves in that regard. Maybe Chet can’t contest every single shot in the first half. Have to let some rebounds go without going for them with a 7’4” wingspan. If there was any common sense they’d bump the foul count up to 6 so it’s actually the players deciding games and not having to sit but that doesn’t appear to be especially close to happening.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Reborn View Post
                              1. Duke shoot 15-25 fould shots/ Gonzaga 7-11. Duke called for only 16 fouls during game and Gonzaga 24. That my friend is reffing. All 3 Gonzaga bigs had 4 fouls on them and each sat out significant minutes in the game.

                              2. Holmgren played an outstanding 2nd half and was a huge difference for Zags in 2nd half. He ended with 16 points and 3 blocks all in the 2nd half.

                              Duke didn't play much better than Gonzaga down the stretch. They made almost all their points from the foul line accept one layup off Bolton. Duke missed 3 foul shots down the stretch. BUT Gonzaga was unable to do much scoring down the stretch. THAT is true. Nmebhard missed a 4 foot bloater and the front end of a one and one, and turned the ball over on a huge mistake down the stretch. Timme missed a 3 ft floater he almost always makes. If we score those baskets we win the game.

                              Go Zags!!!
                              Duke got to the rim and generated those FTs. They weren’t handed out like cosmetic samples on the strip.

                              Zags got beat. Plain and simple. Chet got rag-dolled at times. Team looked half a step out of league. Played careless with ball. Played with hands too much at times. Yes. Foul trouble hurt, but how may did Banchero have at half?

                              I don’t like it either, but this isn’t on the refs.

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                              • #30
                                A few thoughts:

                                1) What a phenomenal game. Fun to watch, even with the loss. Just two really good teams with a ton of talented players trading blows.

                                2) Tremendous experience for the younger guys especially. Hickman, Sallis, Holmgren, and Perry will benefit greatly from this game. Blowout wins over UCLA and Texas were impressive but a tight, physical, intense game like this with a Final 4 atmosphere is invaluable.

                                3) Not a criticism of Coach Few - but IMO most coaches put guys in foul trouble on the bench for far too long. "Securing the fate you are trying to avoid" - maybe there is data to refute my point, but my perspective is that points during a game are just as valuable as those at the end, and leaving important players on the bench too long can really hurt

                                4) Proud of this team - lots to learn and a ways to go, but this was always going to be the case with a young group with so many new pieces

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