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Gonzaga vs Duke Post Game thoughts and analysis

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  • #31
    Originally posted by zagfan24 View Post
    A few thoughts:

    1) What a phenomenal game. Fun to watch, even with the loss. Just two really good teams with a ton of talented players trading blows.

    2) Tremendous experience for the younger guys especially. Hickman, Sallis, Holmgren, and Perry will benefit greatly from this game. Blowout wins over UCLA and Texas were impressive but a tight, physical, intense game like this with a Final 4 atmosphere is invaluable.

    3) Not a criticism of Coach Few - but IMO most coaches put guys in foul trouble on the bench for far too long. "Securing the fate you are trying to avoid" - maybe there is data to refute my point, but my perspective is that points during a game are just as valuable as those at the end, and leaving important players on the bench too long can really hurt

    4) Proud of this team - lots to learn and a ways to go, but this was always going to be the case with a young group with so many new pieces
    The local sports radio here in DC area made your same #3 point. They actually pointed to metrics about the chance of incurring 4th and 5th fouls compared to impact on the game that suggest leaving players provide better outcomes.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by zagfan24 View Post
      A few thoughts:

      1) What a phenomenal game. Fun to watch, even with the loss. Just two really good teams with a ton of talented players trading blows.

      2) Tremendous experience for the younger guys especially. Hickman, Sallis, Holmgren, and Perry will benefit greatly from this game. Blowout wins over UCLA and Texas were impressive but a tight, physical, intense game like this with a Final 4 atmosphere is invaluable.

      3) Not a criticism of Coach Few - but IMO most coaches put guys in foul trouble on the bench for far too long. "Securing the fate you are trying to avoid" - maybe there is data to refute my point, but my perspective is that points during a game are just as valuable as those at the end, and leaving important players on the bench too long can really hurt

      4) Proud of this team - lots to learn and a ways to go, but this was always going to be the case with a young group with so many new pieces
      3 is a concern for me with Coach Few. Basically the only concern I have with him at this point, but he’s always been conservative with fouls. We fouled Chet out ourselves by sitting him for 10 first half minutes in a game where he finished with 3 fouls. It’s complicated because playing with fouls limits how aggressive you can be. But automatically sitting Chet until halftime (or in this case, one minute left in the half) because he got two fouls was unnecessary and we see it a lot with our guys.

      Basically, imo, even though the last 5 minutes are the most important, you want your guys on the court for as many of the 40 minutes as possible. We reduce that number pretty significantly with how we respond to fouls. Chet got his minute count up to 29 but had to play the entire 2nd half and was gassed at times (giving up that tip which led to the Duke bucket and then his inbounds turnover).

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      • #33
        Originally posted by johno View Post
        We had too many stupid turnovers.
        Nuff said!!

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        • #34
          If you watched that game without a score on the screen, most would think Duke won by 10+. GU kept it close with grit and lost it with 4 or 5 unforced errors.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by 72Prep View Post
            Yep. If you watched that game without a score on the screen, most would think Duke won by 10+. GU kept it close with grit and lost it with 4 or 5 unforced errors.
            Conversely, it was Duke’s to lose and their FT shooting kept Zags in a for a bit. Duke controlled entire game.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jazzdelmar View Post
              Game might’ve cost Tims the POY, lots of national eyeballs even at that hour. Good chance he returns to try again. Banchero far outperforms Holmgren, but little chance Chet returns. Even with a wealth of talent, Few still refuses to develop bench beyond 6th or 7th man and it always bites him. Bolton plays with great confidence. Would like to see him run the point a bit more. Gotta say, Watty played well, should have had more PT. The game looks close on paper but it was really Duke’s to lose. Seventeen TOs are hard to overcome, so many just dumb plays like two throw aheads for no reason.
              Agreed on all accounts.
              America's Team!

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              • #37
                You all have covered the bases very thoroughly. Bottom line is we hit our FT's or make a couple of those missed 3's we win this one. That Duke D was intense.
                One of the greatest stories in basketball history...Gonzaga!

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                • #38
                  The attendance was staggering for a game in November. I can only surmise that the powers that be (such as Big East) are mulling scenarios that include the Zags in a coast to coast conference. You can't pin it all on Koach's Swan Song.

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                  • #39
                    Not sure if these stats are 100% relevant to this game:

                    Going back to the 16-17 season I counted 15 losses. Thats pretty amazing! However In those15 losses only once did the opposition turn the ball over more than GU. That was in the 18-19 season vs UNC. GU WAS +9 in turnover ratio wich should be a guaranteed win however UNC was 13-25 52% from 3 that's 39 points. That was 15 more pts than GU From the 3, enough to overcome the turnovers and win by 13.
                    Only twice did GU shoot a higher % behind the arc and loose. 17-18 season vs SDSU, GU was at 31% the Aztec's 30%. GU scored +6 points from 3 but turned the ball over 5 more times than SDSU, loosing by 2. The 2017 NC game vs UNC was a strange game GU shot 42% from 3 (8-19) while UNC stunk it up at (4-27) 14%. Again you almost can't loose that game unless you turn the ball over 14 times and UNC only turns it over 4. -10 turn over ratio is just about a guaranteed loss.
                    This was the average over the 15 losses:

                    3P% ZAGS 27.6
                    COMP 39.4

                    TOV ZAGS 14.6
                    COMP 11.0

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jazzdelmar View Post
                      Conversely, it was Duke’s to lose and their FT shooting kept Zags in a for a bit. Duke controlled entire game.
                      I wouldn’t say Duke controlled the entire game. We weathered their opening punch. Took a 4 point second half lead and were right there to win but had about seven bad possessions in a row. They bank in a 3 down by 4, Chet has his go in and out. We were right there and couldn’t come thru from the 7 minute mark to the 3 minute mark.

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                      • #41
                        If I hadn’t watched the game and just read this thread I’d think that Duke beat us by 24 points in a complete beat down start to finish. But what I saw was Duke play extremely well and win by three. Wasn’t it 84-81, not 90-66 or something?

                        I’d also believe that Chet was dominated start to finish, but what I actually saw was Banchero start hot and fade dramatically, but once Chet settled in he played well.

                        PB had 21 points on 17 shots.
                        CH had 16 points on 13 shots.

                        PB had 5 rebounds.
                        CH had 7 rebounds.

                        PB had 0 blocks and 1 steal.
                        CH had 3 blocks and 0 steals.

                        PB had 2 assists.
                        CH had 0 assists.

                        PB played a tiny bit more.

                        If I had the #1 pick I’d take PB because he has an NBA ready body and dominated the game for a six or seven minute stretch. But those stat lines, both as a team and PB vs Chet, are a lot closer than some are crediting.

                        And pretending like officiating doesn’t impact close games is kind of funny to me. As a competitor you can’t blame officiating because, for the most part, it is beyond your control and it’s a waste and distraction. But as fans we can’t control anything and everything is fair game. The officiating last night was not perfect. The big issue I had was how many more fouls GU committed early in the first half even though Duke was playing extremely physical and extended defense. To my eye, the first half officiating heavily favored Duke’s extended defense while penalizing GU for icing pick and rolls and making the same or lesser contact closer to the hoop. On the one hand, teams need to adjust to the officiating, but on the other hand changing your style completely to accommodate the officiating because they aren’t consistently calling fouls brings about its own problems. It was a bit like watching a WVU game where the strategy is apparently to foul five times on every play and challenge the officiating to foul the entire team out in five minutes. And it doesn’t always balance out. Did officiating style cost GU 4 points in this game. Possibly. Hopefully that’s not what the players are focusing on though.

                        What I saw:
                        Nembhard played more like he did at Florida. High assists, high turnovers, inefficient shots. He needs to play more like he did last year when he shared responsibility for running the offense with Jalen.

                        Hickman looks real comfortable. I’d be playing him as many minutes as possible because he is the best option outside of AN to run the offense some and take pressure off AN.

                        Strawther has been a force in 6 of 7 games. He also rebounds and plays defense. We should run more of the action through him or put him in action with Timme like we did with Kispert last year.

                        Bolton is a deadly shooter when he doesn’t shoot off the bounce from long range. I don’t know if there is a site that tracks it, but he has to be around 60% when not taking a dribble before shooting the three.

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                        • #42
                          Duke 23 points off turnovers Zags 2.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Zagceo View Post
                            Duke 23 points off turnovers Zags 2.
                            Not much to overthink about this game...lol.

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                            • #44
                              As well as Nembhard played against Texas he played equally poor against Duke. It was a very poor performance in both halves. Timme also had too many turnovers as well. Thats what cost us the game. The refs ALWAYS give Duke an advantage at the line every game. Its a given.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Zagceo View Post
                                Duke 23 points off turnovers Zags 2.
                                In a nutshell.....

                                Go Zags!

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