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Gonzaga vs WSU Lady Cougars Wbb

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  • #16
    - coach few and fortier are very stubborn coaches, once they decide upon a starting 5 it is like pulling teeth to get them to change.
    - yes! troung sisters should start, along with ejim and add walker. tonight o'connor looked like a deer staring into headlights, she just would not shoot the ball.

    - very disappointed in coaching and team prep. we knew wsu played a successful hard noise in your face defense. yet all game long the team made lazy passes that were stolen (13 steals!) and passes into the post that had about a 5% chance of being successful.
    - i checked team stats before the game, gu out performed their opponents in scoring, shooting %, 3 point %, f.t. attempted, f.t.%, total rebounds, total steals, total blocks, and only in turnovers does gu's opponent out preform them.
    - as we sat down, i told mrs. gaw, if we limit our turnovers or stay even with wsu on turnover we should win. sure enough zags beat wsu in shooting %, 3 point shooting%, rebounding and f.t. %.

    - yes this gu fan is greedy, too use to home wins at an 80% rate. but this was a game gu should have won with a commitment to valuing the basketball.
    Last edited by GonzaGAW; 12-08-2021, 09:14 PM.

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    • #17
      Didn’t catch the game…. Family first, granddaughters playing HS BB.

      But the score surprised me…. Don’t remember a game where we didn’t put at least 50 points on the board.
      Also very surprised at 1 for 10 from the 3 in the second half… you don’t win games when shooting 10%.

      Looks pretty silly when EWU puts in 18 - 3s

      Do you think they are spending a little to much time on other things?

      Go Zags!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Come on guys, Wednesday's loss to the Cougs had plenty of blame to go around.

        Really ZAB, you want to blame a person who played a total of 6 minutes?

        Gonzaga won this game in every way except on the scoreboard. Not only did the big WSU stars, the Ledger-Walker sisters, Murekatete, Teder, etc. not dominate their zag opponents, in many cases the zags played even or outplayed the Cougs. The aforementioned Charlisse Ledger-Walker only scored 14 points (less than her average) but she shot less than 30% and she only gathered 4 rebounds. The Lady Zags played her and Bella Murekatete very well. The quality of the Zag defense is not in question. If you hold a team to 51 points, especially after giving them 20 turnovers, the defense has nothing to be ashamed of. The Zags should be expected to win every game if their opponent only scores 51 points. So why did the Lady Zags lose to the Mountain kitties?

        If the Zags have 10 turnovers instead of 20 turnovers, the Zags score 6-7 more points and the Cougs lose 6-7 points resulting in a double-digit win for the Zags. Most of us on this board noted it before hand, against WSU, the Zags had to value the ball, so you know the coaching staff knew it. Whether it was K-11 or K-14 continually attempting to force the ball inside, AV passing the ball without looking to a player who was not there, BS's 3 straight turnovers on consecutive possessions (the stats are wrong). or any number of players who had the ball ripped out of their hands. The Lady Zags simply were not prepared for WSU's ball hawking tendencies, and they should have been. While I can understand that BS probably has never seen that level of pressure, there is no excuse for this level of performance from you junior and senior backcourt personnel. Unprepared, not ready, whatever the reason, CLF did not have her team ready for Belmont last year and certainly did not have the Lady Zags ready to play Wyoming or WSU.

        The Wyoming game had something similar to the WSU game, 5 minutes of good offense in one quarter and 35 minutes of questionable, disjointed, poorly (insert your own adverb here) run offense. Even fixing the turnover issue would still only get the Lady Zags 56-57 points, very similar to the 54 points they scored against Wyoming. The Wyoming game gave the blueprint to beating the Zags. Be very physical with the Zags and make them pay anytime they come into the post. If they want to be beat you, make them shoot something other than lay-ups. Wyoming did not have the horses to entirely stop the Zags, WSU did, but just barely.

        Fortier runs a very unimaginative offense with very few sets. As head coach of WSU, Kamie Ethridge, said before the game

        “They just run a really disciplined system. They have well-defined roles, not a lot of sets … they just run and say, ‘This is what we do, try to stop us,’ ” Ethridge said.

        So, the problem for the Lady Zags is, what does CLF do when somebody (Wyoming and WSU) does stop the basic offense?

        Before the game, in the pre-game interview, Coach Fortier said, “We’re going to have to play a lot better offensively if we’re going to have the same outcome against WSU,” Fortier said.

        Yep, coach knew what needed to happen for the Zags to win, and it simply did not happen. Coach, that goes on you.

        Does this summary of the offense sound familiar:

        "We're disorganized as a group right now, from the coaching on down. There is no sense of [having] a plan of how we're going to execute, how we're going to get a bucket, who's going to get it for us. Scoring is a function of people working together."

        Sounds a lot like the Lady Zag offense.

        Can Fortier fix it? We got three OOC games for her to try before conference games begin against teams that know the Zag offensive inside and out.

        ZagDad

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ZagDad84 View Post
          Come on guys, Wednesday's loss to the Cougs had plenty of blame to go around.

          Really ZAB, you want to blame a person who played a total of 6 minutes?

          Gonzaga won this game in every way except on the scoreboard. Not only did the big WSU stars, the Ledger-Walker sisters, Murekatete, Teder, etc. not dominate their zag opponents, in many cases the zags played even or outplayed the Cougs. The aforementioned Charlisse Ledger-Walker only scored 14 points (less than her average) but she shot less than 30% and she only gathered 4 rebounds. The Lady Zags played her and Bella Murekatete very well. The quality of the Zag defense is not in question. If you hold a team to 51 points, especially after giving them 20 turnovers, the defense has nothing to be ashamed of. The Zags should be expected to win every game if their opponent only scores 51 points. So why did the Lady Zags lose to the Mountain kitties?

          If the Zags have 10 turnovers instead of 20 turnovers, the Zags score 6-7 more points and the Cougs lose 6-7 points resulting in a double-digit win for the Zags. Most of us on this board noted it before hand, against WSU, the Zags had to value the ball, so you know the coaching staff knew it. Whether it was K-11 or K-14 continually attempting to force the ball inside, AV passing the ball without looking to a player who was not there, BS's 3 straight turnovers on consecutive possessions (the stats are wrong). or any number of players who had the ball ripped out of their hands. The Lady Zags simply were not prepared for WSU's ball hawking tendencies, and they should have been. While I can understand that BS probably has never seen that level of pressure, there is no excuse for this level of performance from you junior and senior backcourt personnel. Unprepared, not ready, whatever the reason, CLF did not have her team ready for Belmont last year and certainly did not have the Lady Zags ready to play Wyoming or WSU.

          The Wyoming game had something similar to the WSU game, 5 minutes of good offense in one quarter and 35 minutes of questionable, disjointed, poorly (insert your own adverb here) run offense. Even fixing the turnover issue would still only get the Lady Zags 56-57 points, very similar to the 54 points they scored against Wyoming. The Wyoming game gave the blueprint to beating the Zags. Be very physical with the Zags and make them pay anytime they come into the post. If they want to be beat you, make them shoot something other than lay-ups. Wyoming did not have the horses to entirely stop the Zags, WSU did, but just barely.

          Fortier runs a very unimaginative offense with very few sets. As head coach of WSU, Kamie Ethridge, said before the game

          “They just run a really disciplined system. They have well-defined roles, not a lot of sets … they just run and say, ‘This is what we do, try to stop us,’ ” Ethridge said.

          So, the problem for the Lady Zags is, what does CLF do when somebody (Wyoming and WSU) does stop the basic offense?

          Before the game, in the pre-game interview, Coach Fortier said, “We’re going to have to play a lot better offensively if we’re going to have the same outcome against WSU,” Fortier said.

          Yep, coach knew what needed to happen for the Zags to win, and it simply did not happen. Coach, that goes on you.

          Does this summary of the offense sound familiar:

          "We're disorganized as a group right now, from the coaching on down. There is no sense of [having] a plan of how we're going to execute, how we're going to get a bucket, who's going to get it for us. Scoring is a function of people working together."

          Sounds a lot like the Lady Zag offense.

          Can Fortier fix it? We got three OOC games for her to try before conference games begin against teams that know the Zag offensive inside and out.

          ZagDad
          GU isn't the first to experience the "sleeper hold" WSU seems to put on teams in the second half, so I get the frustration. It was an ugly first half as a Cougar fan watching Charlisse Leger-Walker and Bella' miss shots all over the place with nobody else really stepping up. Ugly for both teams.

          The 3rd quarter was like a lot of games last year where WSU is down 10+ and finds a 10+ to 0 run to get back in the game. It seems to come out of nowhere with similar runs last year against UA, UCLA, Oregon, etc. It makes for mostly close games but just seems part of the DNA for this team. Bad overall game from 3 for WSU but shot 50% in the 2nd half (which included a couple of blown open layups). Teams are obviously focusing a lot on C. Leger-Walker but not her best outing. Missing the front end of the first free throw at the end really badly isn't something I have seen too often as an example. GU did a good job being physical when she would go inside and like everyone her 3 wasn't going.

          Anyway, I watch GU when I can to get a feel for this game. Really like Kayleigh Truong's shooting and feel for the game every time I watch her but if I could take one GU player off the GU roster it would be Yvonne Ejim. Seems like a high IQ gamer who makes plays. Surprised she doesn't get more minutes. Best of luck the rest of the way.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Coug Tracks View Post
            GU isn't the first to experience the "sleeper hold" WSU seems to put on teams in the second half, so I get the frustration. It was an ugly first half as a Cougar fan watching Charlisse Leger-Walker and Bella' miss shots all over the place with nobody else really stepping up. Ugly for both teams.

            The 3rd quarter was like a lot of games last year where WSU is down 10+ and finds a 10+ to 0 run to get back in the game. It seems to come out of nowhere with similar runs last year against UA, UCLA, Oregon, etc. It makes for mostly close games but just seems part of the DNA for this team.
            My problem Coug Tracks is that the Zags came out on fire in the 3rd quarter and built on a 7 point lead to a 12 point lead. The Zags scored 11 points in the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter after only scoring 23 points in the entire first half. Ethridge rightfully called timeout as the game was getting away from the Cougs right out of halftime. As you said, the Zags went to sleep and only scored 2 points in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter.

            Whatever Ethridge said or changes she made, Fortier certainly did not counter. It did not help that CLF made some line-up changes (why she keeps messing up something that is working so well, is beyond me) and one of the new players turned the ball over on 3 straight possessions. That may have helped the Cougs a little bit.

            If the lead is double digit going into the 4th quarter, which it should have been, the Zags win.

            The Zags, literally and figuratively threw this game away.

            ZagDad

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            • #21
              I can confirm, WSU has a knack for making other teams have inexplicable scoring droughts and somehow giving games away. Happened several times last year, against good opponents.

              Comment


              • #22
                - yes our team 'threw away the game'
                - and yes the turning point was wsu's time out down 12. last 5 minutes of 3rd quarter saw the lead dewindle to 2 and as i recall coach fortier never once called a timeout.
                - so add to reason for the loss, we got out coached.

                - wash it off, get back to the drawing board, make better in game adjustments and beat the next team up.

                Comment


                • #23
                  The more I watch the more I believe CLF just isn't a good in game coach... some of her substitution decisions seem just downright braindead... wrong player at the wrong time...

                  Just my opinion

                  Go!! Las Zagas!!!
                  "Learn from the past, Plan for the future, Live in the Now!"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GonzaGAW View Post
                    - yes our team 'threw away the game'
                    - and yes the turning point was wsu's time out down 12. last 5 minutes of 3rd quarter saw the lead dewindle to 2 and as i recall coach fortier never once called a timeout.
                    - so add to reason for the loss, we got out coached.

                    - wash it off, get back to the drawing board, make better in game adjustments and beat the next team up.
                    So, the Lady Zags have had a turnover problem essentially all year. When do they quit forcing the ball into the post when there are 2-3 opposition players between the ball handler and the pass recipient? When do the Forwards/Posts quit bringing the ball down where the opposition guards can grab it? When do the pass recipients move toward the pass instead of waiting for the pass to come to them? When do the passers actually make eye contact with the pass recipient before making the pass? These are all things we are taught as middle- and high-school players. I am sure forcing the ball to the post is a CLF thing. The rest are simply poor execution which is not being corrected during practice. You practice how you play.

                    CLF does not have a great record against good teams. Belmont, last year, is a great example. Belmont had the best player on the court, the Lady Zags had the best team on the court. CLF refused to change her defense to take away the one player who was beating them consistently. She stubbornly refused to accept the fact that the Zags had no one person who could stay with or guard Destinee Wells (25 points, no one else had more than 8).

                    Five days earlier, Wyoming played the same game that WSU did and almost beat the Zags. By all appearances, CLF learned little from the Wyoming game, as WSU repeated the strategy with better players and reversed the final score. I am not sure CLF has any interest in accepting responsibility and working to improving her coaching.

                    Under CLF, I have no doubt that Gonzaga will always be in the mix for WCC Championships and WCC Tournament Championships. However, if they want to move the program forward, to become a fixture in the Top-25 and a force in the NCAA tournament, CLF needs to up her game. While she has shown some improvement in recent years (halftime adjustments), Wednesday's game shows she still has a long ways to go (in game adjustments).

                    ZagDad
                    Last edited by ZagDad84; 12-11-2021, 11:53 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      For years you take it game to game… don’t look to the bigger game. Yet what does GU WBB do…. Muck up the week with correcting something that shouldn’t have happened. If they make every game about do we stand or do we kneel or do we do the sidestep…. Well….
                      Sorry folks I’ve been around long enough to know that distractions can get in the way of being prepared. And they were not at their best…. And that was coaches and players.
                      If you are going to hit your goals, its time to get back to basketball…. And only basketball…

                      Go Zags!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ZagDad84 View Post
                        My problem Coug Tracks is that the Zags came out on fire in the 3rd quarter and built on a 7 point lead to a 12 point lead. The Zags scored 11 points in the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter after only scoring 23 points in the entire first half. Ethridge rightfully called timeout as the game was getting away from the Cougs right out of halftime. As you said, the Zags went to sleep and only scored 2 points in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter.

                        Whatever Ethridge said or changes she made, Fortier certainly did not counter. It did not help that CLF made some line-up changes (why she keeps messing up something that is working so well, is beyond me) and one of the new players turned the ball over on 3 straight possessions. That may have helped the Cougs a little bit.

                        If the lead is double digit going into the 4th quarter, which it should have been, the Zags win.

                        The Zags, literally and figuratively threw this game away.

                        ZagDad
                        First part of the second half was even 6-6 followed by each team going on a run. Each run was driven by TOs. WSU had at least 3 or 4 during GU's 5-0 run to push their lead to 12. GU had at least 4 during WSU's 11-0 run before Ejim hits a shot at the end of the 3rd qtr. to push the lead back to 3. Based on the first 2 1/2 quarters GU should have been comfortably up but runs are typical in hoops (regression to the mean). WSU drastically cut down their turnovers for an 11 or 12 minute stretch and changed their defense. More pressure and overplayed passing lanes, which lead to turnovers and transition shots. GU didn't seem to get many good looks and their FG% reflects as much. Mostly contested interior shots, contested FT extended shots, or 3s (1-10 H2).

                        FWIW, GU has a really good program and personally I think Fortier is a quality coach. GU has more talent on paper and a lot more depth period. WSU is early stages of a build but last year had a lot of experience in games like this one against similar talent/programs to GU (UA, both Oregon schools, UCLA). Won some, lost some that were close. It was also a bigger game for WSU. Nobody in the program currently had even been in a competitive game against GU let alone won.
                        Last edited by Coug Tracks; 12-12-2021, 06:45 PM.

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