Stockton's season tickets suspended due to his defiance of McCarthey mask mandate

[zagfan24]

At some point people need to start pushing back against this whole charade of disease theater re: pointless masks (if you want a real mask policy, enforce N95's and give them--ideally, more than three--to the public for free). Cloth masks don't work against Omicron, period. I can provide 10 peer-reviewed PubMed studies if you want (the WHO agrees), but it's probably easier for you to just start reading some for yourselves: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8016026/

We can debate vaccine safety and effectiveness, but at the end of the day the futile mask mandates (like the high-cycle PCR tests) are driving a massive and unnecessary wedge between people for no purpose other than to create chaos. The rest of the country has started to figure this out, but it looks like WA/OR/CA have invested way too much in the narrative to admit that the mask policies (which were rooted in a disinformation campaign by the CDC at the beginning of the pandemic falsely claiming that CoV-2 was not aerosolized but spread primarily by respiratory droplets) are not backed by science.

I applaud Stockton and I hope at some point in the near future the University and the Stockton family can reconcile for the greater good.

People have been opposed to all sorts of masking mandates long before Omicron. And while I'd argue the "debating" vaccine safety and efficacy is going to be pretty one sided, you are correct in that many of the masking strategies are limited in the CURRENT state of things. New data and new variants change the calculus all of the time. It's hard to adjust policy quickly enough to adjust to these changes. YET the rules that are in place are what they are. To the extent that they are "creating chaos" seems to be placing blame on the rules themselves (or the people making them) rather than the people refusing to follow them simply because they don't agree.

[Zagceo]

The rest of the country doesn't have an indoor mask mandate like Washington State does. I don't know what to tell you. I don't really feel bad for Stockton wearing a mask for a couple hours when my daughter wears one all day on the bus and during school. My wife wears one for 10-12 hours a day at her job.

you made my point….the rest of the country sees WA ORE CA not adjusting to data.

[JPtheBeasta]

1. I’m seriously interested and so is the majority of the board. 2. You don’t think it’s germane to this whole conversation?

Not for your expressed purpose of “injecting reality” into a conversation about mask mandates.

[Alum08]

People have been opposed to all sorts of masking mandates long before Omicron. And while I'd argue the "debating" vaccine safety and efficacy is going to be pretty one sided, you are correct in that many of the masking strategies are limited in the CURRENT state of things. New data and new variants change the calculus all of the time. It's hard to adjust policy quickly enough to adjust to these changes. YET the rules that are in place are what they are.

Yes, because we (scientists) knew that cloth masks were ineffective during the initial WT outbreak as soon as Ro > 8. And anyone in science that had worked with coronaviruses knew that they are primarily aersolized. But anyone attempting to share these facts were deplatformed. That was about 3-4 weeks into the pandemic. So Omicron having an Ro ~9-9.5 or whatever really has made zero difference. The fact that the media and the government misled the public the entire time about this is not something I would ever want to support by following their harmful and pointless mandates.

To the extent that they are "creating chaos" seems to be placing blame on the rules themselves (or the people making them) rather than the people refusing to follow them simply because they don't agree.

I wasn't going to go there but there is plenty of evidence (we knew this from studies post-1918 Spanish influenza) that cloth masks actually create more disease in the hands of the public because they do not use them correctly (cloth masks can breed infectious diseases since they are warm and moist environments). So it's a LOT deeper than simply not "agreeing".

[gu03alum]

you made my point….the rest of the country sees WA ORE CA not adjusting to data.

I think there are many people in those other 47 states who wish their states were more like WA ORE CA. Even in Texas, the majority of people there support indoor mask mandates. Regardless of the support or lack of support, it is a rule and he needs to follow the rules. The state has shut down businesses for not following the rules. He put Gonzaga in a really tough spot due to his selfishness.

[LongIslandZagFan]

you made my point….the rest of the country sees WA ORE CA not adjusting to data.

Not NY... so dial back your rest of the country.

[Alum08]

I think there are many people in those other 47 states who wish their states were more like WA ORE CA. Even in Texas, the majority of people there support indoor mask mandates. Regardless of the support or lack of support, it is a rule and he needs to follow the rules. The state has shut down businesses for not following the rules. He put Gonzaga in a really tough spot due to his selfishness.

It's called civil disobedience and I believe it has a place in society, but we can agree to disagree there. I took an entire course on it at GU so obviously the University is accepting of the concept.

As far as polls (Argumentum ad populum), I don't believe them anymore (as the kids say, polls are for trolls and lulz), but it's no surprise that so many people have been misled by our government and media's selective reporting of the actual science going on behind the scenes. They've led a massive fear and disinformation campaign to drive vaccine acceptance (for better or worse) and frankly the Texas numbers you shared gives me a lot of hope that people (if not the majority--yet) are starting to see the cracks in the narrative.

[LongIslandZagFan]

It's called civil disobedience and I believe it has a place in society, but we can agree to disagree there. I took an entire course on it at GU so obviously the University is accepting of the concept.

As far as polls, I don't believe them anymore (as the kids say, polls are for trolls and lulz), but it's no surprise that so many people have been misled by our government and media's selective reporting of the actual science going on behind the scenes. They've led a massive fear and disinformation campaign to drive vaccine acceptance (for better or worse) and frankly the Texas numbers you shared gives me a lot of hope that people (if not the majority--yet) are starting to see the cracks in the narrative.

So wearing a piece of cloth over your mouth for 2 hours during a basketball game is akin to fighting segregation? Sorry... no... it is selfishness pure and simple.

As for your diastribe on cloth masks... I will stick with a more trusted authority like the Mayo Clinic.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449

[gu03alum]

It's called civil disobedience

LOL

[Alum08]

So wearing a piece of cloth over your mouth for 2 hours during a basketball game is akin to fighting segregation? Sorry... no... it is selfishness pure and simple.

As for your diastribe on cloth masks... I will stick with a more trusted authority like the Mayo Clinic.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...k/art-20485449

There is zero assertion in your link that cloth masks are effective against COVID. In fact, if you read between the lines the article states that cloth masks only stop respiratory droplets, which isn't how Cov-2 is primarily spread.

LOL

...when there are no arguments left.

[basketballzag]

Doing the right thing isn't about public opinion. Or donations.

You may disagree with the mask policy, but I don't know how a reasonable person can believe it's not the choice of the GU administration to set their rules and the choice of others to decide whether or not to attend.

The stats are clear on vaccines. They are clear on masks. I wear one around Covid+ patients frequently at the hospital and I've never had a positive test. Do they work in a stadium of 6000? Not sure, don't care as pertains to this debate. It's Gonzaga University not Stockton University. He chose to break the rules, the consequences are only logical.

No one knows what the stats on vaccines really are. I've had COVID three times and two of those times came after I was vaccinated and boosted. The first time I caught it was before the lockdown and the Doctors prescribed the wrong medication which caused double pneumonia. I was vaccinated after that and caught the Delta variant and received a booster and caught the Omicron variant right before Christmas. Now I travel every week, attend large events several nights a week, and eat at restaurants at least 4 nights a week so I'm more susceptible to catching COVID that most because I'm around people more. The last two times I was completely asymptomatic.

The vaccines have been linked in several medical journals to cause pericarditis and myocarditis cases which is why many of these athletes that Stockton referred to died. Their heart comorbidity was the trigger and the bullet was the vaccine for these unfortunate people. These athletes for the most part already had comorbidities and the vaccine generated a reaction in many of these people by triggering pericarditis/myocarditis deaths.

As for masks--99% of the American public are wearing fake N-95 or "NIOSH Certified" masks and by the way they do not make "NIOSH Certified"/N-95 masks for children because they haven't figured out how to properly size children yet. The only masks that offer protection are those that have N-95 AND "NIOSH Certified" on them. If the mask doesn't specifically state NIOSH Certified and N-95 and there is not approval letter starting with TC-84A...." then your mask is worthless. If it is made anywhere other than China or South Korea its worthless. How many children did you see in the stadium wearing masks at the game? Are we going to kick them out because they are breaking the rules by not wearing a legitimate mask?

If you are so caught up on the mask crap then by all means we will designate you as the official mask policeman who can kick out all of these children and adults for wearing fake masks.

The biggest losers in this entire event are Chris (AD) and Thayne. There are four games left and now you decide to pull the plug? They should have just waited this foolishness out because it has made a mockery of the basketball program nationally.

[gu03alum]

...when there are no arguments left.

Read LIZF post if you want a rebuttal.

[LongIslandZagFan]

...when there are no arguments left.

No... it is because you assertion that not wearing a mask is somehow on par with either a) a revolution or b) fighting to be treated fairly during the civil rights movement. That stance is laughable.

You have yet to show anything other than your opinion on masks and don't provide links to substantiate your claims.

But lets look at JAMA which is peer reviewed...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

Community mask wearing substantially reduces transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in 2 ways. First, masks prevent infected persons from exposing others to SARS-CoV-2 by blocking exhalation of virus-containing droplets into the air (termed source control). This aspect of mask wearing is especially important because it is estimated that at least 50% or more of transmissions are from persons who never develop symptoms or those who are in the presymptomatic phase of COVID-19 illness.¹ In recent laboratory experiments, multilayer cloth masks were more effective than single-layer masks, blocking as much as 50% to 70% of exhaled small droplets and particles.^2,3 In some cases, cloth masks have performed similar to surgical or procedure masks for source control. Second, masks protect uninfected wearers. Masks form a barrier to large respiratory droplets that could land on exposed mucous membranes of the eye, nose, and mouth. Masks can also partially filter out small droplets and particles from inhaled air. Multiple layers of fabric and fabrics with higher thread counts improve filtration. However, the observed effectiveness of cloth masks to protect the wearer is lower than their effectiveness for source control,³ and the filtration capacity of cloth masks can be highly dependent on design, fit, and materials used. Standards for cloth masks are needed to help consumers select marketed products.

I will stick to the science that is peer-reviewed but it is quite clear that wearing a mask is far better than being selfish and not wearing one in public at stopping the spread of the disease.

[JPtheBeasta]

Even CNN has “critiqued” the use of cloth masks for Omicron:

“Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of Omicron," said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, on CNN Newsroom Tuesday.

"This is what scientists and public health officials have been saying for months, many months, in fact," Wen added in a separate phone interview.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/24/h...ess/index.html

[JPtheBeasta]

No... it is because you assertion that not wearing a mask is somehow on par with either a) a revolution or b) fighting to be treated fairly during the civil rights movement. That stance is laughable.

You have yet to show anything other than your opinion on masks and don't provide links to substantiate your claims.

But lets look at JAMA which is peer reviewed...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536



I will stick to the science that is peer-reviewed but it is quite clear that wearing a mask is far better than being selfish and not wearing one in public at stopping the spread of the disease.

Peer reviewed literature took a couple of hits at the hand of the Lancet and the CDC. The Lancet was exposed for a fraudulent ivermectin safety study and the Atlantic blew the lid off of a fraudulent mask study that was used to support use of masks in school. I’d use caution in automatically accepting the credibility of peer reviewed literature.