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  • https://airmail.news/issues/2020-6-1...all-over-again

    Aimail.news did a piece featuring the twins the other day (link is above). They ask for an email address to read the interview, but I found that [email protected] worked just fine. Newer boardmembers may not be aware of family history (not my side of the family). I'd introduced our God Daughters to the Board with this short video, first shown on CBS the night of President Obama's first Inauguration.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EST8rmZRrNk

    BTW Mrs GoZags and I are in the opening scene of the CBS video (can't make us out unless you know where to look) and in one of the closing scenes at Arlington we were there as part of the family, but out of camera range as Aunt Myrlie placed the flowers. I try to get to Arlington once a year to say hello and pay respects, but haven't made it this year.

    And speaking of Arlington, their Twitter account recognized Uncle Medgar the other day, the anniversary of his assassination.
    https://twitter.com/ArlingtonNatl/st...13158729654272

    This photo was taken shortly after Myrlie placed the flowers and the camera was turned off .... this was MLK Day in '09 ... the day before President Obama's Inauguration.
    207391_1048205459632_3475_n_zps8c6c67aa by tbkd1, on Flickr
    Last edited by GoZags; 06-15-2020, 07:34 AM.
    sigpic
    “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
    ——-
    List of All Americans (1st Team Top 5) and Academic All Americans (1st Team Top 5) in the same season since '00:
    Shane Battier, Dan Dickau, Omeka Okafor, DJ Augustin, Kelly Olynyk, Nigel Williams-Goss, Corey Kispert.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hoopaholic View Post
      Ummmmm
      Option 2 was utilized. Several officers a present.
      You left out some key factors and events

      Several officers engaged in making a lawful arrest.......could have simply walked away once determined he was intoxicated driving a car......but society has asked us to intercede and make an arrest to save lives

      At that point a fight occurred. Could have quit trying to make an arrest And walked away but once again society has implemented laws against fighting officers...I wont even mention the right to protect ones self.

      Could there had been hesitation by the officers in applying proper use of force while trying to effectuate the arrest due to current political climate?Video indicates lack of command and control when deciding to make the arrest. Was this approach a causation of current climate? Asked him to put hands behind back several times, with no engagement of arm control once he refused after the first request........

      Subject during the fight stole the taser from the officer, ripping it out of the holster.....not a benign act, a conscious act
      The use of a taser against an officer can have serious consequences
      Could have simply stopped and let him get away with the taser

      Subject fled on foot with officers giving chase

      Subject made a conscious choice to slow down turn and point the taser at the officer
      In video you can see the officer who was running with HIS taser out, switch to his firearm
      *does an officer have a legal right to defend himself against potential serious injury or death? That is the crux of this event and some are starting to pulll back on this and again if society wants to create that rule (counter to current laws and court cases) then they can but I hope they think through the unintended consequences of that decision

      While his firearm is out, the suspect shoots the taser (suspect you can see the electronic flash of the taser device)

      So this is where science comes into play that most people don’t understand. Delayed reaction response is a scientific finding on human decision making..you have to recognize the threat, process that recognition, then trigger the training response....generally .38 to .75 seconds before engaging in a decision point. Firing three quick successive shots adds approximately .22 to .31 seconds (but the breakdown of the film will provide exact timing)

      So from the time the subject shoots the taser to the time to engage in the use of the firearm Is probably close to 1 second, thus a scientific demonstration of why the subject was shot in the back........


      So the question will be does the officer have a right (legal, moral, ethical) to protect himself against someone who is trying to harm him in a serious manner (untrained use of a taser could have easily hit the officer in the face, could have hit the officer and then put the officer down with firearm available)



      Bad outcomes come daily in America as we lead the world in violent criminal crime....so if we as a society want to protect others from violent crime we ask law enforcement to intercede and make arrests for the violent crime

      To me the current state of afffairs centers on two key questions for communities to consider
      1. Do we want an entity to continue to make lawful arrests of crimes that are on the legislative books
      2. If so do we as society want to give those individuals the right to protect themselves and others from injury and death

      Tough questions for society to face today.......
      Agree that we do have to face these questions and it's not easy.

      A couple of things I'm wondering that I don't know:
      1. Do I, as a private citizen, have the right to shoot and kill a non-LEO person who points a taser at me?
      2. What are the countries that have fewer law enforcement killings doing differently? Are their police officers victimized more often?
      Agent provocateur

      Comment


      • My problem with the shooting was that he was shot in the back, running away and not facing the officer and he had already "fired" the taser so there were no other "shots" to be fired. The man was arrested for being intoxicated while driving a motorized vehicle not a felony. Once the taser was fired at the officer, he was no longer in danger. He could have kept running after him and help would have been on the way as they had his car and address so he could have been found if he would have gotten away. This officer used his service revolver unnecessarily...lethal use of force was not necessary, since the offer and no other "by-standers" were in danger. I believe the officer was pissed, which is why he shot the man in his back. This reminds me of the black man in Charleston, SC that was driving, was stopped, had a warrant for not paying child support. The man got away from the officer and tried to grab his taser and began running away from the officer. The officer took out his weapon, aimed and fired "SEVEN Times" hitting the suspect in the back with each shot. The man took several steps, fell down and died! This officer was found guilty and imprisoned for 25 years.

        I expect a similar outcome for the shooting in Atlanta.

        I am not keen about drunk drivers nor those that don't pay child support but the sentence of death is a bit over the top.

        What really gets me is the two young black people that were dragged out of their car during the protests for being there, the two officers in Buffalo who pushed and knocked down a 75 year old man and then the shooting of the black man in Atlanta. One would think that with all the protests going on in ao many of our major cities, a little common sense would have been applied by these officers. I can imagine that the Mayor of Atlanta had a pretty stern conversation with her Chief of Police about those six idiots involved with removing those two young black people from the car AND THEN on top of that issue, another officer shoots a black man in the back killing him! No wonder the Chief resigned, she evidently lost the ability to communicate to her immediate subordinates to use proper police procedures regarding use of force.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Markburn1 View Post
          Hey Will,

          I think it would be more useful if you stopped copying and pasting and gave us your own thoughts instead.
          Agreed.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
          - Gandalf the Grey

          ________________________________



          Foo Time

          Comment


          • The bottom line is the Atlanta cop's career is over because he wanted to play hero ball and ended up shooting a guy who was running away in the back.

            This shooting wouldn't have happened in Canada or Germany or France. It wouldn't have happened in Small Town America. They would have let the jack ass run, wrote up a warrant, and picked him up the next morning or at his place of work on Monday.

            Comment


            • I don't want to get snippy, but I have posted several of my own ideas, ones that I feel are pertinent and apropos, without many comments, some with none.
              I also copy and paste things that I believe to be pertinent, to my way of thinking.

              How about if you disagree with something I have copied and pasted, you voice your disagreements and if you don't have any, you limit your posts to your own original and appropriate ideas? Seems fair to me rather than wanting to censor what I post just because it is a copy and paste.
              Not even a smile? What's your problem!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sonuvazag View Post
                Agree that we do have to face these questions and it's not easy.

                A couple of things I'm wondering that I don't know:
                1. Do I, as a private citizen, have the right to shoot and kill a non-LEO person who points a taser at me?
                2. What are the countries that have fewer law enforcement killings doing differently? Are their police officers victimized more often?

                1. Yes if you fear for grievous injury or death you have a right to protect yourself and others under the constitution, laws and court cases.......police are held to an even higher level of review as the determination of validity of use of force is not at the level of a citizen but at the higher level of reasonable officer response based upon training, experience and human factors....for example I am 6 feet and 240 pounds with 31 years of law enforcement and thousands hours of trainingif a person 5”8 to and 155 pounds coming at me with fists reasonable officer use of force would dictate under those circumstances lower level of force.......switch it around and have a 6reasonable foot coming at a 5”8 rookie officer just out of academy and the use of a baton, mace or possibly taser would be considered justified

                2. Honestly it comes down to violent crimes and engaged action of the subject not willing to come into arrest or compliance is the biggest difference, combined with firearm possession and finally training on perceived vs real threat

                We have 5 -7 times the violent crime per year
                We arrest 2-4 times violent offenders than other countries
                We have 5 to 7 times the number of gun violence than other countries
                We are 10.6 per 100,000. Canada. 2.1, Germany .9, UK .3 Japan .2
                We make up 5% of the worlds population and have 45% of all firearms in the world

                Perceived versus real comes down to changing the laws and court rulings.....reasonable standard allows the perception of potential threat of serious injury/death to react......I firmly believe that one must see a real threat before engaging in the use of deadly force (moral and ethical vs legal). And robust training with dedicated funding for specific training (we have 40 mandatory training topics each year to ensure occurs, so the practical scenario training events, the de-escalation hands on training all suffer unless there is specific and mandated training with funding for it

                Now there is a long sociological discussion on why we lead the world in violent crime.....would probably take multiple beers
                Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

                Don't mess wth happy...Coach Few

                Comment


                • Originally posted by willandi View Post
                  I don't want to get snippy, but I have posted several of my own ideas, ones that I feel are pertinent and apropos, without many comments, some with none.
                  I also copy and paste things that I believe to be pertinent, to my way of thinking.

                  How about if you disagree with something I have copied and pasted, you voice your disagreements and if you don't have any, you limit your posts to your own original and appropriate ideas? Seems fair to me rather than wanting to censor what I post just because it is a copy and paste.
                  Seems to me that you universalize the behavior of certain individuals (cops) to create a narrative when it suits your thinking, but ignore/rationalize the behavior of other individuals when it doesn’t fit the narrative.

                  I suppose that’s no different than what Fox New, CNN and MSNBC do.

                  It’s no less irritating.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ZagsObserver View Post
                    Seems to me that you universalize the behavior of certain individuals (cops) to create a narrative when it suits your thinking, but ignore/rationalize the behavior of other individuals when it doesn’t fit the narrative.

                    I suppose that’s no different than what Fox New, CNN and MSNBC do.

                    It’s no less irritating.
                    Scroll past. It's not a big thing if you don't like what I say.

                    I support LEO completely, excepting those few that seem to show up now and then. I have always had good relations with cops (excepting when young and on the wrong side).
                    If we didn't make somewhat generalized statements, we would be having to discuss each and every, both good and bad.
                    Again. When I have made original thought postings, very few have elicited comments. When I copy and paste, people respond. Go figure.
                    Rather than deciding what I am doing and saying wrong, POST SOME OF YOUR OWN SOLUTIONS AND IDEAS!
                    Not even a smile? What's your problem!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by willandi View Post
                      Scroll past. It's not a big thing if you don't like what I say.

                      I support LEO completely, excepting those few that seem to show up now and then. I have always had good relations with cops (excepting when young and on the wrong side).
                      If we didn't make somewhat generalized statements, we would be having to discuss each and every, both good and bad.
                      Again. When I have made original thought postings, very few have elicited comments. When I copy and paste, people respond. Go figure.
                      Rather than deciding what I am doing and saying wrong, POST SOME OF YOUR OWN SOLUTIONS AND IDEAS!
                      It has little to do with your own material vs borrowed material. It has to do with truth and beauty. Like your Tanya post, which Was out of context and factually incorrect. Rather than apologize once you were aware of its disingenuity, you doubled down and made a snarky comment. Own it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ZagsObserver View Post
                        It has little to do with your own material vs borrowed material. It has to do with truth and beauty. Like your Tanya post, which Was out of context and factually incorrect. Rather than apologize once you were aware of its disingenuity, you doubled down and made a snarky comment. Own it.
                        Please block me. Then you won't have to see any of it.
                        Not even a smile? What's your problem!

                        Comment


                        • In my opinion, this thread has run its course and should be moved. Let's talk basketball.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ZagsObserver View Post
                            It has little to do with your own material vs borrowed material. It has to do with truth and beauty. Like your Tanya post, which Was out of context and factually incorrect. Rather than apologize once you were aware of its disingenuity, you doubled down and made a snarky comment. Own it.
                            Please go back and read my responses. None were snarky. The closest was a different one where you didn't agree with what I said my cousin complained about.

                            Thank you.
                            Not even a smile? What's your problem!

                            Comment


                            • Regarding the closing of this thread.

                              I agree it has run it’s course. I’m impressed it held up so long.

                              We, for the most part, had a conversation from multiple viewpoints. There were some that wanted to shut it down because they didn’t agree with some of the things posted. One even went so far as to say that if people didn’t agree with his point of view they should be booted from the forum. That type of thinking is dangerous. That isn’t seeking a conversation, it’s seeking to force agreement with dire consequences if you choose to deviate from that person’s point of view. Fortunately, most people got their points across and respected other’s right to do the same.

                              One thing brought us to this forum to begin with. Gonzaga basketball. I look forward to discussing it in the future with folks I obviously disagree with on subjects that don’t pertain to the magic of Zags basketball. I said in an earlier post that there is not one of you that I wouldn’t enjoy a meal with. I hope you all feel the same.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by willandi View Post
                                Please go back and read my responses. None were snarky. The closest was a different one where you didn't agree with what I said my cousin complained about.

                                Thank you.
                                I’ll pm you. Don’t think we need to lead everyone down this rabbit hole.

                                Comment

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